Caroline Farrow’s Premature Police Proceedings

Caroline Farrow has posted on Twitter that her solicitor has brought a claim against Surrey Police, specifically, “my solicitor who was submitting a claim for wrongful arrest against Surrey Police to get it in before the 3 month deadline under the Equality Act expired” (archive). That does not look right to your author, who went to a law school. So the question is, is it Caroline who is mistaken or her solicitor?

Caroline Farrow claims her solicitor has filed a claim in order to get it in by the 3 month deadline. Except there is no such thing. The deadline is actually six years for wrongful arrest, and 6 months for discrimination.

Caroline Farrow claims her solicitor has filed a claim in order to get it in by the 3 month deadline. Except there is no such thing. The deadline is actually six years for wrongful arrest, and 6 months for discrimination.

Quick law lesson: Wrongful Arrest is a tort. It has nothing to do with the Equality Act 2010. It is actually just a name for the tort of false imprisonment, the elements of which are (1) imprisoning the claimant and (2) absence of lawful authority. The time limit is six years save in the case of a claim for personal injury where it is three years.

Police can also be sued for discrimination in relation to an arrest. In this case, the arrest would be one of the elements of the claim (the ‘detriment’) suffered as a result of some protected characteristic, e.g. Catholicism. Such claims are actioned as a breach of statutory duty, also called statutory tort. Non-discrimination is a duty created by the Equality Act 2010. Under the Equality Act 2010, being arrested is a service provided by the state and therefore actionable under s29, which covers claims by members of the public against service providers. S29 claims are brought in the County Court and not the Employment Tribunal per s114. The time limit is six months per s118 (1) (a).

Donoghue Solicitors have a near-complete list of time limits here in case anyone doubts me.

Caroline’s replies are current full of, “yay! Go grrl!” and similar. Since what Caroline has written appears to be mistaken, I have written to her solicitors and asked them to clarify. I am curious as to what proceedings have actually been issued (if any), which solicitors are acting and what the head of claim is. Her solicitor at AI law Tom Ellis read my request for an explanation, but no response has been received. If I have made an error of law, they have not said what it is. If another firm is acting for Farrow in the police claim, they have not said who it is.

With a claim where there is a six year time limit and plenty of time left, it is customary and prudent to wait until the criminal investigation and police complaint investigation have completed so that the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct can be completed. Failing to do so may attract costs penalties. Where there is a shorter limitation period like six months for a discrimination claim, it is of course incumbent on police to get a move on within that period or proceedings may have to be issued protectively. It is very unusual to bring the claim at three months and can attract costs risks.

MHN hopes that Caroline’s cheering followers are not about to be disappointed.

There is a more serious issue here however, because Farrow is asking her followers for donations in support of her various legal defences and claims (archive). When asking for money, in my opinion the utmost transparency and clarity is warranted.

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Joshua Conner Moon of Kiwifarms’ – Dark Secrets Shared by Rival Site?

It is well known that Kiwifarms has a number of rival sites in the same genre. I rarely comment on them, because I do not approve, but equally it is not my job to police the internet. If people do not have beef with me, I am far less likely to have beef with them. However, this Christmas one of the rival sites, onionfarms.com has raised some very interesting concerns about James Gabriel Potter (born Joshua Conner Moon) and I am going to take the exceptional step, as Ethan Ralph recently did, of sending them some traffic. Information shared on the site includes recent discoveries about Josh’s hitherto unknown historic online activity and information about one of the unusual companies associated with Kiwi Farms, Flow Chemical Pty Ltd.

In this screenshot, an account believed to be Josh compliments a minor on their beauty.

In this screenshot, a DeviantArt account believed to be operated by Josh compliments a minor on their beauty.

Posters on onionfarms.com have discovered a 12 year old DeviantArt account called 2tsuki that has many indications pointing to it being Joshua Moon (archive). The account pre-dates the existence of Kiwi Farms and therefore forgery by Josh’s enemies is not a plausible cause of its existence. The account was previously unknown. However it interacts with known Josh accounts, has the same interests and, critically, the same birthday. So either Josh had a friend with exactly the same birthday on the same year and identical anime interests, or, it is Josh. The account was also created before Josh legally changed his name to James Gabriel Potter in a New York court.

Screenshots show 2tsuki interacting in disturbing ways with other users such as complimenting a minor on their beauty when at the time the 2tsuki account operator was an adult (going by their stated ages).

Since Onionfarms exposed this account, it has been deactivated. However, much of the content has been archived such as this eerie story, believed to be by Josh, in which he becomes the sole carer for a minor (archive). The story claims to be inspired by Lucky Star, an anime series about underage schoolgirls. It makes strange remarks such as, “To humor him, she suggested naming the child Konata in homage to his favorite character. It went over well, despite various lighthearted jokes about pedophilia. So the child was to be dubbed, “Konata.””.

Most chillingly of all – “He felt confident in his country, that the child he was about to meet would be in better hands here in Japan than back in America. His only regret was that it would be unlikely his mother would meet the child.” Joshua Conner Moon is well known to have hosted child rape snuff stories on his defunct /phile/ board, leading to unpleasant possible interpretations of this statement.

The second issue raised so far is Josh and Kiwi Farms’ links to an Australian company called Flow Chemical Pty Ltd. The allegation is that WHOIS records for Kiwi Farms at one staged showed them being hosted by Flow Chemical along with the IP block for the hosting company 1776 Hosting (operated by Joshua) being from the range allocated to Flow Chemical. There is a lot of unproven speculation about the company but there do seem to be unanswered questions.

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End of Year Court Case Roundup – Hemming and Smith v Butt and Pouton

It is the end of the year and this is a brief, scheduled post to set out the current state of play in the court proceedings I am, or have been, a party to in Hemming v Poulton and Smith v My Media World and Butt. This is partly to counter-balance Sonia Poulton’s misleading comments about it.

In his bizarre official statement today, Muhammad Butt looked far greyer than he did only two years ago.

In a bizarre official statement after the hack of Brand New Tube, Muhammad Butt, Brand New Tube CEO, looked far greyer than he did only two years ago. Picture used for the purposes of criticism of the video.

Smith v My Media World Limited and Butt – (near) total victory. I sued Muhammad Butt and My Media World Limited for libel and under the data protection act. They counter-sued for libel and harassment. The counter-claim was dropped, meaning all my articles stayed up and Muhammad ate his costs of the counter-claim and paid mine. In my case, it was settled by My Media World Limited and Muhammad Butt agreeing to a permanent, lifelong restraining (Tomlin) order. Some costs were paid to Muhammad by a wealthy backer, but overall far less than he paid out. This case is notable because I represented myself in all of the cases and did my own paperwork, except in this case for one hearing I instructed David Hirst of 5RB Media Chambers, and also used advice from Matthew Hodson of Gatehouse Chambers. Very happy with both barristers.

During the period of this case, My Media World’s Brand New Tube website (brandnewtube.com) was hacked again. This is notable because some of my coverage of their firm was allegedly defamatory or harassing. My Media World and Butt’s counterclaim was dropped however, meaning my articles stay up. Muhammad’s odd video about it is worth watching for comedy value. It is a shame because Brand New Tube is a good idea but the execution is poor and attempts at constructive criticism have received a hostile response.

Smith v Baker – Total victory. I sued Esther Baker and defended a counter-claim, representing myself. Her defence was largely struck out and she agreed to a lifelong restraining order. Baker counter-sued for libel and harassment. Her counterclaim was struck out and summarily judged in my favour because she failed to Reply to my defence of truth. My articles stay up. She is paying my costs back in instalments. It will take her a very long time.

Hemming v Poulton, Smith and Laverty – John Hemming is suing Sonia Poulton for libel and breach of the GDPR and Data Protection Act 2018. Sonia has counter-sued Hemming myself and Darren Laverty for harassment. Darren counter-counterclaimed for libel. So far, Sonia has settled with Darren and had a small part of her Particulars struck out.

Bizarrely, Sonia has claimed on her fundraising page and on Twitter that in the proceedings the court has accepted that she is a journalist against opposition by John Hemming at a hearing on 14 July 2022. No such decision was made because it is not in issue. The court order, which is public, simply adjourns the hearing and the judge remarks it is due to Poulton raising further matters the night before. We are seeking our costs of the hearing thrown away in all circumstances.

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Joshua Conner Moon, Elaine / Echo and Sam Smith

Elaine and Sam at Dinner

Elaine and your author Sam Smith (Vordrak / Matthew Hopkins) at a smart London restaurant.

Recently, rumour has it that Kiwifarms owner Joshua Conner Moon (Null) has been getting hot and bothered about his interactions with one of his despicable website’s victims, infamous female hacktivist Echo (known as Elaine to her friends). Echo was banned from the Kiwifarms, then permitted to rejoin under an alt, then banned again. There has been a bizarre amount of fake / revenge porn about a relatively well-adjusted and innocuous young woman. The awful truth is that there is evidence that provides strong grounds for suspicion that she really is being cyberstalked by the depraved incel Moon – just as he once infamously hounded his unrequited love, Stocking (Clara Lovett) of the Blocklands forum.

For readers who are unfamiliar, Kiwi Farms is an extremist hate group that exists by its own admission to stalk the disabled. It is owned by self-confessed and depraved paedophile Joshua Conner Moon. Members have committed mass murder, such as William Atchison, and owner Joshua Moon assisted the perpetrator of the murders of over 51 Muslims in Christchurch New Zealand by distributing their manifesto (archive).

KiwiFarmsTwitter

Kiwi Farms is run by paedophile sadist Joshua Conner Moon and exists to harass the disabled. Click for full size.

Over the years I have campaigned against Joshua Moon I have from time to time worked with his other opponents. Recently, the Kiwis and some of their splinter sites have got all hot and bothered about a hacktivist known as Echo. There has been a lot of alleged nudes of her posted on various sites, as well as alleged self-harm by cutting her thighs. I can confirm these are all fake.

Echo got in touch with me, and my interest was piqued. Echo lives near me so I took her out for dinner. I met with Echo multiple times. There were no marks or scars on her thighs and she was not wearing foundation or other obscuring cosmetics. The lighting was bright. Her body in real life does not match any of the nude photographs or videos. When we met, she behaved in a socially appropriate way and did not demonstrate any vulnerability. She made good eye contact and maintained a conversation. I wrote my LL.M dissertation on mental capacity and she did not demonstrate any obvious signs of illness or disability.

So why are the Kiwis writing such a disturbing amount of obfuscatory fanfic? Why post so many fake pictures and videos? Why are they so (to use their terms) ‘butthurt’? The answer seems to lie in the vast amount of disturbing correspondence between Echo and a person claiming to be Joshua Moon. Despite his posted denials, there are grounds to suspect Moon is in fact the person in contact with her.

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MHN Blog Comments: a Reminder and Warning

Today I have received legal complaints, and non-legal complaints about blog commenter. I am not going to single out the complainants but it is worth reminding and warning commenters.

The policy of this blog is broadly to comply with s5 Defamation Act 2013 as set out in the blog’s existing legal policy. This generally gives me complete immunity. That means if I receive a defamation complaint about your comment, I may not take it down right away, but I will forward you the complaint compliant with s5 and the regulations. If the email bounces, unless I feel both willing and able to defend the comment, I will remove it. If the email does not bounce, you are on your own. I will not disclose your data without a court order, but I will follow the procedure and again, if you give your name and address for service, great. Otherwise, unless I feel willing and able to defend your comment I will remove it.

Finally, a reminder that I can be ordered by a court to disclose data and unless the request is obviously ridiculous, may decide to consent to that order.

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Is Kiwifarmer ‘Erasmus of Rotterdam’ Really Caroline Farrow?

Yesterday, MHN posted a damning exposé about Caroline Farrow. She was quite a bit upset with my media inquiry letter which was sent beforehand to give her a chance to point out any factual errors. Caroline went so far as posting on Twitter that my media inquiry made her, “throw up in fear” (archive). Today, a user called ‘Erasmus of Rotterdam’, posted bizarre allegations on Kiwifarms, claimed to have hacked MHN and the editor’s PC, but was especially upset about questions 10 and 11 in the letter. Those questions were never published. There are grounds for investigation as to whether the poster was in fact Caroline Farrow, sock-puppetting.

Kiwifarms user 'Erasmus of Rotterdam' posts allegations so fake even Dynastia calls them out. But this person has seen a private letter I shared only with three people.

Kiwifarms user ‘Erasmus of Rotterdam’ posts allegations so fake even Dynastia calls them out. But this person has seen a private letter I shared only with three people. Click for full size.

So, who could it be? Firstly, I do not have a copy of anything uploaded to Kiwi Farms so if a copy of the letter was actually uploaded, I have not verified it is the real letter. However, the poster must have at least seen the real letter to know about the questions. So, there is a limited pool of suspects.

Full disclosure. I do not normally correspond with Stephanie Hayden but as they were a subject of the story, I sent them a copy of my letter. Another went to Simon Just. Finally of course, a copy was sent to Farrow via her solicitors. Not long after, Louise Moody claimed to have read the letter. From time to time, Caroline Farrow has been advised by Adrian Yalland, so I considered he might have had a copy. All of these people have at times been accused of sock-puppetting, save that I discount Farrow’s solicitors as likely culprits having no reason to suspect them of socking nor breach of confidence.

The ‘Erasmus of Rotterdam’ account was created on 1 September 2022. It is an account mostly notable for a virulent hatred of transgender persons, variously describing them as fat, eunuch, paedophiles (note the British spelling of ‘paedophile’ as opposed to the American, ‘pedophile’). The account was created before my beef with Farrow and comments mostly on a debate my supporters and I have little involvement in. Beyond a suspicion they are British, who could it be.

But … we have such a short suspects list. Who would be really, really upset about my article about Caroline Farrow? Who would claim to have hacked my hard drive, when they only actually have access to one document – clumsily trying to be, “down with the kids”, if you can call the members of a stalking site, “kids”. I could just imagine Erasmus beginning a post with, “Hello fellow Kiwi Farmers”. Indeed, I had been talking about this with Hayden and Just all day, also separately with the hacktivist Echo. Echo is a younger woman in her twenties and by eerie coincidence had made the very same point about Farrow being a cringe user of Kiwi Farms.

So, I decided to make use of a tool we have had for some time. An AI neural text analyser. Continue reading

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Caroline Farrow, Paedophile Sadism, Terrorism, Child Protection and the Catholic Church

As a Conservative, Christian, law blogger I have much sympathy with the gender critical movement. I am the author of multiple articles on that side of the debate, for example, “Trump Boosted as American College of Paediatricians Describes Transgender Ideology as Child Abuse”, “High Court Judge Saves 7-Year Old Boy from Being Forced to be Transgender by Abusive Mother” and “Why Straight Men Should Support Lesbians and Feminists Over ‘Drop the T’”. So I was surprised to hear that Joshua Moon was claiming I was assisting a person suing Caroline Farrow as McKenzie Friend (and should, “die”) … because I am not. No offence to either side – but I have nothing to do with Farrow related litigation. The incident has however reluctantly forced me to scrutinise Farrow’s online activities – which I fear may reveal a serious safeguarding failure by the Roman Catholic Church. In my opinion, based on the materials below, Farrow and those closely associated with her have no place in a Christian ministry or anywhere near vulnerable people.

Caroline Farrow Respects Joshua Conner Moon

Caroline Farrow Respects Joshua Conner Moon. So, what is Moon known for? This article explores the man she rates so highly.

Caroline Farrow is a member of the website Kiwi Farms, a site she describes as, “doing the Lord’s work” and, “the basest site in the world”. This is an unusual and concerning way to describe a site that has promoted and facilitated paedophilia, stalking (including child stalking) and terrorism.

Farrow uses Kiwi Farms to, "decompress" and for, "laughter".

Farrow uses Kiwi Farms to, “decompress” and for, “laughter”.

According to her profile (archive), Caroline joined the site on 13 March 2020, she has over two and a half years of posting and 181 posts. The profile also describes her as a, “bulwark” of the Catholic Church. So, her Catholicism is very much associated with the site. So, what is it, exactly? What is this site that Caroline has chosen to endorse in such an enthusiastic (and therefore, it is to be inferred, informed) way?

KiwiFarmsTwitter

Kiwi Farms is run by paedophile sadist Joshua Conner Moon and exists, in its own words for “exploitation of the mentally handicapped for amusement purposes”. Based on her enthusiastic endorsements, Caroline apparently believes this is God’s will.

Kiwi Farms was set up, in the owner’s own words on the site’s now banned official Twitter account for the purposes set out left.

“Gossip and exploitation of the mentally handicapped for amusement purposes.”

A good example of the, “exploitation” is the site’s treatment of an autistic person called Christine Weston Chandler. Chandler used to live in Ruckersville, Virginia and has been the focus of Kiwi Farms’ interest to the extent they used Chandler’s postal address on their accounts at times – hence the Ruckersville location in the image to the left.

Chandler was stalked on an industrial scale. Female members of Kiwi Farms and its precursor CWCKi would pretend romantic interest and record phone calls or even meetings with them. This included phone sex. The recordings would be shared online for pleasure. This behaviour was well exposed by Margaret Pless in New York Magazine, “Kiwi Farms, the Web’s Biggest Community of Stalkers” (archive).

Vulnerable Chandler suffered as a result of the stalking that continued throughout the latter part of their minority and into adult life. Eventually Chandler was arrested after a female member of Kiwi Farms persuaded him to have sex (or claim to have had sex) with his very elderly mother (archive).

Given the stated purpose of Kiwi Farms, which is also extremely well covered in the media, I asked Caroline Farrow, via her solicitors AI Law – Question 1 – Is stalking the disabled and encouraging sexually activity for the purposes of mockery, “the Lord’s work”?

No reply (and no denial) was received. Continue reading

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2000 Trees: First Letters of Claim Drop

If a solicitor is dishonest they will generally be struck off, for life, even if the dishonesty has nothing to do with their legal practice (Bolton v The Law Society [1993] EWCA Civ 32). A less well known fact, and a pitfall for the unwary, is that the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) Character and Suitability Test treats discrimination the same way. Avoiding discrimination is therefore a consideration that solicitor Brendan Herbert will need to have uppermost in mind as he and his fellow directors of the Real Festival Company Limited (RFCL), which runs 2000 Trees, grapple with the challenges faced by his colleague James Scarlett’s recent decision to cancel a male musician who asserts he is a victim of sex crime (which crime he has reported to police). This morning the first letter of claim arrived at the company’s registered office, including an allegation of sexual assault and harassment of which the artist was the victim. If the company fail to deal with it in an acceptable way, all avenues are likely to be pursued.

The 2000 Trees Festival has now received the first steps towards being sued, and Director James Scarlett has been made a personal defendant.

The 2000 Trees Festival has now received the first steps towards being sued, and director James Scarlett is proposed as a named a personal defendant.

This blog is not entitled, “impotent legal threats I have helped litigants to make”. It is, amongst other things, an account of a series of protracted court cases where I have helped vulnerable litigants pro-bono or represented myself – almost without exception ending ruinously for the other side. It is punctuated by links to judgements on BAILII and court orders.

Yesterday I published news of a successful application for permission for judicial review by former MP John Hemming, a litigant in person who I have assisted. Less than 1% of applications for judicial review get permission. It is only the most recent of many successes for Mr Hemming. Who can forget the humiliation of vile former Guardian, former Exaro journalist David Hencke, who consented to a lifelong restraining agreement in favour of Hemming, in the High Court? We are now in year 7 of fabulously expensive grimdark litigation, whose only winner has been Hemming.

Right now, I am assisting a young musician, a band member who asserts he was sexually assaulted by an obsessed female admirer at the 2000 Trees Festival in 2019. I feel somewhat uncomfortable about talking, at this stage, about proposed court proceedings with such candour. However, it is necessary in order to assist the musician in replying to the attacks made on him, which he legitimately fears risk inciting violence. To the extent there is a use of private information, it is in the public interest to counter material others have placed into the public domain so the public is not misled – being (at best) unproven criminal allegations against the band member. It is only fair to point out that the other side are in the same position.

Like many male victims of sexual assault, he did not at first recognise that was what happened, but has now reported the sexual assault to police. His account is that he accompanied the woman back to her tent and after an initially failed attempt at intercourse, she attempted to physically restrain him to prevent him from leaving. This appears to have a sexual purpose and therefore fall within the very wide definition at s78 Sexual Offences Act 2003. After he ghosted the woman, she made false allegations against him over a period of years and 2000 Trees failed to deal with it in an appropriate way. 2000 Trees look likely to face difficulty with the resulting claims because their published Welfare, Security and Safety Policy (archive) is a placeholder page.

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John Hemming: Permission for Judicial Review over Alleged Police Dishonesty by Staffordshire Officer Javid Oomer

DCSJavidOomer

Detective Chief Superintendent Javid Oomer – Dishonesty allegations complaint found, “arguable” by judge. Career at Risk?

Former MP John Hemming has been granted permission for judicial review of the outcome of his police complaint appeal to the Independent Office of Police Complaints, over allegations of dishonest conduct by two police officers, Detective Inspector Simon Thomas of Gwent Police and Detective Chief Superintendent Javid Oomer of Staffordshire Police. This is only permission stage, so no findings of wrongdoing have yet been made, however the underlying evidence is of serious public concern.

Thomas was supposed to be investigating Staffordshire Police on the basis of a complaint by Hemming, but Hemming has, via MHN, come into possession of an email in which Thomas expresses a desire to “lessen”, “[…] elements of the lawsuit being taken against your Force […]” to a person at Staffordshire Police. Hemming raised this with the IOPC, which had ignored it. The judge, HHJ Richard Williams granted permission for Judicial Review on the basis that failing to address the allegation appeared to breach the applicable statutory guidance for the treatment of appeals to the IOPC.

The second piece of information which Hemming had discovered was that Javid Oomer had decided to treat the Esther Baker investigation as a low priority, on the basis of a series of reasons which Hemming believes (with some justification), Oomer must have known to be false, and DI Thomas must have known to be false. Again, this allegation was ignored by the IOPC and again Hemming was granted permission.

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Update on Sinister Internet Troll Georgina Middleton / Dylan Charlie

This is an update on the appalling internet troll Georgina Middleton / Dylan Charlie from my last article. I had been in touch with a PC at Cambridgeshire Police about Georgina based on an old address. Since then, however, the tracing agency I instructed has come back with a current address, in Coventry in the West Midlands. I have been in touch with West Midlands Police and now have a West Midlands Police incident number too. Middleton has been making false allegations of rape and paedophilia about multiple individuals online, including one she had actual knowledge was false, based on her emails. Although she has tried to claim Georgina is her deadname, in fact Middleton not only used the name, “Georgina” in her emails but on currently active social media such as her Twitter account @GeeWrites_ (archive). As of today, the account asserts the name, “Georgina”. Obviously, now we have an address for service both myself and another victim are in a position to serve letter(s) of claim or sealed process. Currently we are waiting on discussions the other victim is having with a solicitors firm about a possible Conditional Fee Arrangement (no-win, no-fee). For other victims, the West Midlands police reference is 3109-151122.

Dylan Charlie Crimed

Georgina Middleton / Dylan Charlie’s posts will very shortly lead to substantial civil action against her, and her online posts are under police investigation. Click for full size.

As I said in my previous article here, I consider there is a compelling public interest in naming Dylan / Georgina and giving information about my police reports. This person has been making allegations of the most serious nature online about people ill-equipped to identify her for some time. She has referred to allegations against me she knows to be false, based on her emails. She appears to have incited or encouraged others. Naming her is in the public interest and will assist her victims. Publishing the crime reference number allocated by Cambridgeshire Police and the number from West Midlands Police will make it easy for other victims to explain to police she has a history. There is also a public interest in my responding to false allegations about me communicated to the public, and making it clear how the authorities view them. Finally, there is a public interest in deterring anonymous trolling in the belief it is consequence free. There is a public interest in deterring the group of posters around Georgina making dangerous allegations.

There is also an ongoing concern the allegations may incite violence, which is not helped by members of a group calling themselves, “Knives” getting involved. Taken together, the events have caused fear, alarm and distress to victims and put them in fear of violence by vigilantes.

Cambridge Police have previously had to apologise to me about a similar case when I was in law school but have been very helpful this time. In the previous incident, I had named an internet troll and threatened them with litigation. It did not end well for the troll – or the police officer. The police have been helpful and seem keen not to repeat the same mistakes. Management action was taken against an officer previously – there is still a note in the previous crime report. Private individuals are allowed to represent themselves to contact potential defendants to civil crimes for the purposes of litigation, such as a letter of claim, and it is not harassment no matter how much the defendants say torts trigger them.

Fortunately, because I have previously taken High Court action, successfully representing myself, police now have a better idea of the seriousness of the situation. As a reminder, here is a restraining order I obtained against Dr Jacqui Dillon, and here is a restraining order I obtained against Esther Baker – who is still paying off my costs by High Court Enforcement Officers (High Court bailiffs). Baker has years – perhaps more than a decade – of debt and poverty in front of her.

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